Tournament Hand

[Trevor]

So here's how the hand played out...

I'm Holding and raise from the cutoff position preflop. I get 2 callers: an early position limper, and the big blind.

The Flop:


Big Blind checks, and the limper bets about 1/3 of the pot. I raise about 4 or 5 times his bet. Big Blind goes into the tank and states "thats what I was gonna do" and ends up calling. Limper folds. So what do I put him on? I put him on a flush draw or top pair, possibly both. My next train of thought... What do they put me on? The 2 possibilities would be an overpair, or a flopped set. I decide to play the hand as a flopped set, since I want the pot right now and that is a stronger hand.

The turn:


Big Blind bets about 3/5 of my stack, and then I go into the tank. I rule out 2 pair, since I doubt he'd call all those raises with those kinds of cards. Did he call pre-flop with 10-8 offsuit? No, that's the same as 2 pair. Did he call a raise pre-flop and a huge raise on the flop with random hearts or two clubs, and is betting his draw? No. I have to put him on top pair, and if he has a flush draw to go with it, maybe I can push him out and take the pot... so I push all in. He insta-calls.

His Hand:


The river:


I lose the hand and can't see how he can make that call. Sure when the hands are turned over, he was a dominant favorite percentage-wise. But before my hand is revealed, if he takes my image as a flopped set, he's a dog. I correctly gave him bad pot odds for hitting a draw, and doubt he was thinking his Jack's were good against a flopped set. So why'd he call?

My only thought is that I did not do a good job of playing my hand as a flopped set. If he put me (correctly) on a big pocket pair, then his odds were correct in making the call.

Did I over think it? Was it too sophisticated a play and got lost in the complexity? Is it crazy to think that would work in some cases?

-Trevor

[SeattleJake]

One thing: don't post the results until people have had a chance to comment, you'll get better responses.

Just following the same train of thought here:

Pre-Flop: Villain called your raise from the BB, so we can put him on a good Ax, maybe Kxs, or a pair. AA or KK are unlikely as they probably raise here looking to isolate, but they can't be ignored.

The flop: Villain's comment indicates he didn't believe the limper's bet and thought his hand was good up until that point. If he had a set he'd either continue with the check-raise, or keep quiet looking for the overcall. As it is, the speech and the call indicates he's still not sure he believes you. Top pair almost for sure (AJ or KJ most likely considering the pre-flop call); maybe the intention of check-raising indicates a flush draw as well, but I don't know (maybe AKc).

I think the problem with playing your hand like a set is that you likely have the best hand here with an overpair. Playing it stronger may mean committing more chips than it warrants. And from Villain's perspective, it's hard to give up on a Top Pair hand here without more convincing.

The turn: That's difficult. He either decided he was best after all, or now had a redraw in case he was wrong. J9 is possible but I agree that it's unlikely, as is T8 and TT, though 99 is a possibility considering the big bet. AJh or KJh are still most likely given the earlier action, feeling more confident now that he picked up the flush draw.

I think your re-raise all-in was the right play, and when you got your money in, you were a 68% favorite (http://www.pokerstove.com).

The one suggestion I would make is to bet less on the flop. I think a 3x raise accomplishes the same thing here while controlling the pot size. His turn bet would likely be smaller, and then your push gives him incorrect odds to call (2:1 instead of 3:1 if I estimate the numbers right).

[StevenGomez]

My best guess is he called because, once you pushed on the turn, he had so much committed to the pot that he kind of had to call. Not knowing the stack sizes, I'm not sure if he was pot committed or not, but given the relative size of the pot to the amount needed to call, it probably wasn't all that much back to him.

Many players will play a variety of hands as aggressively as the line you took: AA, KK, QQ, KJ or QJ, as well as the set pairs 77, 22 and the unlikely JJ. I can see the BB calling with any of these: given you opened from the cutoff, you could be either on a steal or raising with a wide range of hands, and many will call light preflop. Against KJ and QJ, he's ahead. Against an overpair he's behind but can outdraw by spiking an ace or another jack (unless you have AA) as well as making his flush. Obviously, versus a set he needs to hit the flush and the board needs to not pair. If he figures you as the type of player to make a move here, he would also have to consider a weird two pair or the very unlikely 10-8. He could have figured that, given your range, he had more outs than just the flush draw.

The big bet on the flop, as played, is fine if you're planning to shove the turn, which you did. It's just tough to represent a set here given the other possibilities, and once he led the turn for so much of your stack, the chances of him calling your push increased.

Interesting hand, and interesting line taken.

[Seattleallsltar]

well lets look at it this way, it could of been viewed as following up your betting. Since you did raise from the cutoff your hand ranges could vary in that position depending on what image you have to the players at that point. I think it just came down to matter of him thinking he had the best hand, and the heart on the turn gave him all the more reason to go with the hand even if he thought he could of been behind at that point. I would take a more conservative approach with the hand had you raised in earlier position then followed up with your hand on the flop. But you really can't expect most players to fold AJ on a board like that, the best you can expect is a call, then like I stated once the heart came on the turn it really made things iffy. I wouldn't fault a fold or call in this situation. My line is if im playing with a perceived weak player id go with the hand, but if I was playing with a perceived "good" player I would of probably folded on the flop to the bet knowing that 9 times out 10 im a big dog and the player has what the betting indicates he/she does in fact have and wouldn't bet top pair or a flush draw that strongly.